With one great tagline after another, business coach and all-around badass business owner, KATIE MCMANUS joins me this week on Marketing and Sales, Over Cocktails, and you will want to carve out some time for this one!
Totally fun, slightly irreverent, and usually the smartest person in the room or on the Zoom, McManus tells us how she went from an online dating coach for men, into one of the more sought-after business coaches on LinkedIn. Her tagline, “Stop being a weenie and start your business already!” tells you all you need to know about her coaching style.
In this fun-filled interview with lot's of laughter, you’re going to hear Katie’s advice for:
● Heart-centered service providers who want to make a living wage.
● Niching down without cutting off potential clients.
● Small businesses who are ready to scale up.
● Coaching programs do not prepare you for running a business, so Katie’s taken on that challenge to help coaches dream bigger.
● When you choose a niche, prepare to dance with the universe as you figure out what people really need.
● If you want to gag when you think about selling, you need to try out Katie’s “holistic selling.”
All right, here we go. Three, two, and one. Hello, everyone. And welcome back to another episode of marketing and sales over cocktails. This is episode 47 coming at you tonight, and I've got a very excited guest for the feed for the folks that are watching this on YouTube. You can see Katie McMahon is to my screen is on my left is probably she's. I don't know if she's on my right she's in front of me on my computer, but this is. So 47, very excited to have Katie, Katie and I have actually done a few live streams and a few shows already together. So we're like old friends right now, but you guys in the audience are going to really enjoy Katie because she is a, uh, she calls herself. Katie McMahon is coaching. It's kind of boring, but she needs to fix that. 0:48 Yes, it's not. Don't don't judge her abilities to coach by her boring business name. She's really, really good. So before we get to Katie, uh, just a couple of things that we always start with the pod. Cast website is marketing and sales podcast.com marketing sales podcast.com. Send me your questions. You guys have been great sending me questions every week. You go to the ask Alan segment at the top of the page, the webpage send me in your question. And if I read your question on the, or you get a signed autographed copy of my book, and we've got a great question coming up from Mississippi later tonight, so good stuff. So without further ado, Katie McManus, welcome to marketing and sales over cocktails. Thank you so much. This is awesome. Katie is actually in Cape Cod and I am near Providence. So we actually found out we're not far from each other, which is great. I mean, I've had people from all over the world on this podcast. So we finally get someone local, um, and there are smart people locally and internationally. So even on Cape Cod, 1:50 the smart people every now and then, so what's cool about Katie is she helps people, um, really start their business and. Her her tagline on LinkedIn and what she uses, which is hilarious and stopped being a weenie and start your business already. So Katie tell people about what you do and how you got into kicking people in the ass to get, to get their dream started. Yeah, I mean, it was really an accident. Um, I started off about three years ago. I started my coaching business and I lived in San Francisco Bay area at the time and I thought, okay, cool. I dated a lot of guys here and they need my help. So I first went out into the world. And I announced I'm a dating coach for men. And, uh, I only got one guy, 2:40 only one guy, 2:43 eight women signed on to be clients. I would be at a networking event or a cocktail party. And I would announce, you know, I'm a dating coach for men and the women in the group would get super mad and they'd be like, well, what about me? I want to do 2:58 fine. I'll coach you too. No, it's fine. I can tell you what to wear. Um, 3:04 it's so funny, you know, I, I always tell my clients that when you pick a niche, it's really important to pick a niche. But when you do, you have to expect it's going to be a dance with the universe because the universe is going to correct with you. And so with my clients, only one of my female clients stuck with the dating topic. Everyone else, we started working on how they were showing up in their leadership at work and because how they were showing up at work was directly getting in the way. Of how they could be in a relationship. And I realized, I didn't want to talk about it. That's fascinating. Right. Right. Like how they were setting boundaries at work. Like if, if you know, you let meetings run over and you have to cancel dates last minute, that's obviously going to get in the way of you finding someone, you know, or if you're constantly carrying the stress of a quota into your dating life, it's, it's just not going to serve you. That's not sexy and fun, 3:57 you know? Um, so yeah. I realized I like it. I liked executive leadership coaching way more than I did dating coaching. So I actually got trained as a leadership coach through the collective training Institute. Um, but then on the flip side, all of my coach friends I've been trained with, started turning to me, asking me, how did you do that? How did you get clients? How did you set up your business in this way? How do you run a sales call? Like how did you decide on your pricing? How are you making money doing this? Because they were having such a hard time because coaching, uh, programs do not train this. 4:30 Isn't that amazing. Actually, I've seen a lot of coaching programs and you're right. They don't train that stuff. They say, go out and get clients, go and coach everyone, you know, being in the line at Starbucks and just offer to coach the person next to you. 4:47 The doctor who graduates from podiatry school and goes and asks everyone to look at their feet, 4:54 go away. Weirdo. 5:00 So funny is that I started, I started working mainly with coaches, showing them how to build their business and how to run a sales call and how to do marketing and, and really step into their thought leadership. And I started getting messages from lawyers and from photographers and from people who run what I describe as heart-centered service, uh, providing businesses, 5:19 you know, because they want to create good in the world. They want, they ha they want to have an impact, um, and care about their clients so much. They want to provide a really excellent service. Um, but you know, honestly, when you're we have this, this, uh, belief system in our society, that if you're going to be a helper like that, if you're going to be a healer, you also have to be poor. We have like this, right? It's like the nun were allowed to make money via nice. 5:48 All of your worldly possessions in order to help other people like I so EFT up. I don't know if I'm allowed to swear on this podcast. 5:58 Yeah. This is not a made for children. 6:01 Well, we are drinking. So whatever. Yeah. Where'd you yet, by the way, before you continue, I totally forgot. So you have, you have a, Jen, you said you have soda. Okay. Well, you're doing a little more hardcore. I have a little kiosk. So do virtual. Cheers. 6:18 Thank you for being on marketing and sales over cocktails. 6:23 All right. So you were talking about selling all your worldly possessions, so you can help you with, um, So Sarah, you can actually make a living and a good living, helping people. You just have to position it in the right way. Um, I do a lot of like money mindset work because, you know, one of, one of my most successful clients started with me. She was a teacher and one of the things I had to like get past with her in the very beginning is are you willing to give up the teacher salary? You know, the mindset that that's all you can make in your lifetime. Right. You know, because if you're running your own business, this guy's a little. Yeah, 7:03 it's amazing that you said that because the people I coach, I coach various different, um, it's mostly selling, but you know, I'm coaching someone now who, um, she's, uh, she's a retail and she has a retail shop pretty successful, but she really wanted to help kind of branching out into social selling and how to use email marketing and things like that. So he said when one of her assignments was, um, let's do some goals and in her goal, she set up her annual goal. And I sat there. I said, that's probably one fourth of the goal that I would have set for you. And she was like, what? Wow, I can't do that. I'm like, yeah, you can. And when we reverse engineer, cause I basically said to her as a very simple, what is the maximum amount of orders you can, you can produce and send in a day. And she said 15 average order of blah, blah, blah. When I showed her that was $30,000 a month and her goal was $8,000 a month. She was speechless for like a minute. She didn't even never even dawned on her. Right. Everybody has these limiting. They put limits on themselves when they really should. It's so crazy. I, you know, when I first start with someone, one of my first questions is how much money do you want to make? And I always get two answers. They start off with the, well, I would be fine. Well, 8:21 this would cover my basic expenses and it's always like hovering over the poverty line for their geographic area. Right. 8:30 Like okay. But that's, that's not really a number. Come on. What's the real number you want to make. And then they're like, and it's like, they need permission for it. And they're almost too afraid to say it. It's like, and it's not that much. It's like the average income for someone who has a professional job in their area, it's like $120,000. And I'm like, right. So let's build that. It's actually easier to build that than it is to build a small, like a business to 50,000. Right. And it just blows them away. It's easier to do that. Yeah. 9:00 Prior, prior to me hitting the record button you're you're like, we were always what we do. We sometimes assume people just know some things that we think are just normal and people don't know what they don't know. And we have to remember that like, Oh yeah, you actually don't know X, Y, and Z where we think that's common knowledge. And for most business owners it's not. Right. Right. Well, I think, um, this, you know, let's zoom out a little bit. Everyone scans the world for something, you know, there are. Fashion people who scan the world for what colors look really good together. There are, um, architects who scan the world for what makes an elegant, um, classical building that will last the test of time. You know, I'm, I'm not, I'm none of those people. I read marketing books for fun. I, you know, go onto webinars and I see what's effective. What makes me want to buy from them and what doesn't like, I'm constantly scanning the world for what is a good positioning for me to become a consumer. Do more of that thing, you know? Um, and so, um, our job, yours and mine is really to show people the things that they scan the world for and how they can monetize that. But also you have to like the problem that you and I have sometimes if we forget how basic you have to make it,
10:21 like the color thing. So one of my closest friends was pinging me today, a picture of, uh, different, uh, metal spoons on her skin, like on her. Arm, because you're trying to figure out what her skin tone is. So she can figure out her color palette, because she bought this whole, this whole program of like how to figure out your color palette. You know, there's a person out there who does color theory and she knows all these things on color theory and how it, how it shows up in fashion and how it shows up in art. And she's boiled it down to here's a little product you can buy just to figure out what colors look good with your skin.
10:53 Wow. What, let's talk about niches for a second, because. I think niches are so important and people are afraid of them. I'm one of them actually. And I'm actually, I'm a sales trainer and I'm a broad sales. I can train you if you sell something, I can train it. Yeah. But I've actually been thinking this year and maybe you and I can talk offline on this of, of niching down a little bit, because I think if you niche down and your niche is big enough to be successful, you're going to do, it's just going to be much easier for you. For example, I've got a woman coming up on the podcast. She's awesome. She used to sell dental implant. Right. Like there was this company that you'd walk in to the dental implant and you'd actually go see the salesperson. That's what she did. And she was smart enough to say, you know what, I'm going to niche this down and I'm going to train dentists how to sell this to customers and how to sell regular dental. So all she does, her sales training is just for dentists. And she said, I don't, I'm booked out six months. That's like, wow, isn't that right? Amazing. So tell, tell, talk to the audience a little bit about, you know, the importance of niching and what you, what you think about it. Well, okay. To that point, I mean, we think the world is super small. It's not like how many dentists are there in the United States alone? How many, how many dentists are there in Massachusetts? I'm pretty sure if someone's specifically worked with dentists for that thing, they could have a full business for years just working with dentists in Massachusetts. Yeah, I agree. Um, but we're just limited by what we can see in front of us. Um, the other thing is that there's this fear around niching down that it's going to cut off other clients from working with you. You know, most of my marketing is towards coaches and yet I get boarding school consultants. I get lawyers, I get photographers. I get people from all walks of life because I'm not speaking just to problems that coaches have. I'm speaking to the problems that anyone who is starting a service provider based business is having, I just happened to be putting the label coach on it. Um, but it just, you know, if people are reading copy or they're hearing you talk and you're describing the problems that, that they have, they're just going to assume that you can work with them. Right, right, right. Yeah. It's it's 13:15 yeah. There's, there's the artificial way of niching. It's like, I only work with women on my hair's doing something weird. Um, I only work with women who are 34 to 37 years old who have Brown hair, blue eyes, and who work in advertising. Like that is such a false way to do Nisha Nisha Noosh nation, when done well, speaks to the wake up in the morning problems they have in their life and the desire they have to change it. Right. You know, so it could be someone who, here's a great example that I use all the time. Um, you know, if someone's like a coach for women for dating, you know, what if they were a coach for women who've been divorced in the last year who gave up a lot in that first marriage, that first marriage like. All their boundaries got walked all over. They had to give up their career, their hobbies, like they didn't, when they weren't able to maintain friendships. Um, and they really want a partner to walk through life with, but they don't want to give everything up again. And they don't know how to create a relationship that will allow for them to have the life they want. Like, and do you know, one to three people who fit that description?
14:23 I mean that right there just, I know I just made that up and I know four friends that I could refer to that phaco. Right, right. You know, I didn't name their age. I didn't name their socioeconomic situation. I didn't name where they lived. I didn't name what's what language they speak or any of that stuff. Right, right. That's amazing. Done. Well, here, here's a, here's an example of, of niching from a, um, I guess from a, uh, I don't know, a standpoint of, of, um, getting yourself out there, you know, just the personal experience. So. When I was starting my LinkedIn journey and putting my name out there and everything I was trying to get on every podcast I could be on and I would be on one sales and marketing podcast after another boom, boom, boom. They were all fine. You know, I get some, you know, 50 views or whatever it was. And then I realized something one day I got, got contacted by a guy. He was his, his, the name of his podcast was the, uh, tile nation. And he called himself the tile guy. And I'm like, what the hell is this? It turns out this guy is brilliant. He was a tile contractor. He tiled bathrooms. And one day he's like, you know what, I'm going to start a podcast, helping tile contractors with doing their business. Right. Proper colors laying all this stuff. Yeah. He's got like 50,000 downloads a week on his podcast. Yep. So here's the funny thing when I saw that and I kind of was in the beginning when he had like 10,000 and now he's going crazy. Um, Okay, I'll be on your podcast to this day. I still get tile guys contacting me because they listened to the podcast. And I got the most publicity, like most emails, most DMS from that one podcast, because it was a niche. It was these guys that really wanted to improve. And I went on and talked about sales and how to present pricing. That's all I talked about and they flooded asking me questions as opposed to the generalized sales, uh, you know, podcasts that I was on. That you never get anything from that. So, um, it is really an important thing. If you can niche down smart. And if you're in the position of getting yourself on podcasts, get yourselves on podcasts, where you can be, the audience is a specific audience that needs your help. Not just a general audience. 16:50 I can't agree with that more. 16:54 you know, it's so funny. Cause like, And I get all these people reaching out all the time saying that they can get me on morning shows on, on, you know, ABC news. And it's like, 17:09 like, you know, my people aren't watching the news at 10:00 AM, you know, I'm sorry, 17:15 that'd be kinda cool to be on TV, but it doesn't really serve my business. Right. Exactly. And, and the, the 75 year old retired people watching the TV at that time is not your customer. And I mean, Hey, if they want to start a business, great. I would love to support them. You know, I haven't, I haven't had a lot of clients in that demographic maybe because I'm not on the morning shows, you know, maybe you're not on the moon, but for $2,000, we can get you on this other morning show. Right. I will say this. If Ellen ever calls, I will go on her show. Not expecting to ever get a client out of it. I will be happy. I would just, that would be on your website. I was on Ellen right there. We'll get your clients. Yes. Just because you're on an Island. So, 17:59 all right. Let me. Let's talk about, I love the sign behind you because it goes right to the, to the left of your face. And it says holistic selling. I want to talk about both of those things, but tell us about what you mean by a holistic seller. Yeah, so my clients hate the idea of selling. Like it makes them kind of want to gag and throw up. Um, you know, because when they think of selling, they think of that gross used car salesman, you know, that person who's pushy and manipulative and plays emotional games with people. Cool and is really out for his own, his or her own wallet and not for the better, um, uh, of their clients, like the good, the good intentions of their clients. Um, and so what they do when they're on a call with a potential client is they don't ask for the sale. They don't, they just jump over that part. They do some free coaching and then they end the call and that's it. And then they don't have a client. They don't know what happened. 18:56 What did they say? Like, you know, well, you know, think about it. Give me a call when you can, or. So this passive ending of the conversation. Exactly, exactly. They don't know that there is a really clean, honest, integrity based way of running a sales call. That is all about tending to that relationship with that person. Um, and then inviting them to be a client. If it's a fit for both of you, it's not pushy by the, by the end of, of learning holistic selling my clients generally like they get to the end of a sales call. If it's the right fit for them. If this client is the right fit for them as a coach, Um, usually if they've done it well, that client is explaining all the reasons why they need to work with that coach, you know, they're already sold and then the money is just something they have to figure out. Right. You know, but it's clean. And, and here's the thing about selling a service, especially something that's as emotional as coaching. And it requires so much trust is that it's not just a sale and then they go away and they have the thing it's a sale. And then they are in relationship with you for six months to a year. Right. No. So you have to, you have to do things well throughout that first call, because that is setting the tone for your entire relationship with them, right? Yeah. So it's, it's really you, that's why you and I align so well, it's, it's, it's selling without sounding or feeling like a salesperson. Exactly, exactly. Because th th the, the perception of salespeople, as you know, it was, we all know no one wants to meet with a salesperson ever because the perception is terrible. It's like the example I use in my book is like, and we all do this. And we don't even know why we do it. And it's a knee jerk reaction. We walk into a store and someone walks up to you and says, can I help you? What's the first thing out of your mouth. 20:39 Yep. Just looking even if you needed help. That's the fascinating thing about you. You actually need help because you don't know where the damn kitchen knives are, but you don't say help me. Yeah. Afraid that they're going to do something underhanded or rip you off or sell you something you don't need. It is an amazing psychological phenomenon that exists because of the salespeople that have written. People love for hundreds of years. Yep. Cool stuff. Okay. So now the BYOB, which we all know as, as one thing, Katie has turned into something else. So they explained to us BYOB what you do with that build your own business. You know, it's also like bring your own burrito and bring your own booze, but it's build your own business. Um, and I, I love it cause you know, I, my tagline is stop being a weenie. I kind of like having fun, you know, little tongue in cheek. Comments like that. Um, but really when, when someone works with me, I'm not building the business for them, you know, they are working with me. I am coaching them through mindset blocks. I'm helping them figure out their relationship with money, which is usually really fucked up. Um, and then also I'm giving them, I'm bossing them around and telling them, this is what you need to do. Here's your strategy. You know, here's another thing that you need to do. This is the next step. Um, but they are required to do the work. I never want to set the expectation. With a client who's coming to me to think that I'm going to be doing stuff for them, because I'm not, I'm going to be pointing them in the direction that they need to go and say, go, go do it. And if you don't do it, it's, it's up to you. Right. Right. And it's on you and, and you're hoping they do it because they paying you money to coach them to do it. Right. Right. And I think I charge enough money that if people hire me, they, they for sure do the work. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. So build your own business strategy, coach. Um, give us a couple of, is there a couple of tips that you can like, uh, impart on our audience about some things and we're going to, this is going to be a good segue into our question, but yeah, but actually, you know what, let's even ask the question because it's, it's, I'm kind of going to ask the same question anyway. So yeah, we got, I got a question about four days ago from a lady named Jen in Mississippi 22:53 first. Yeah. First question I've ever gotten from Mississippi. So that's really cool. And Jen writes, uh, I have. Well, online business selling jewelry. I sell about $3,000 a month and you and I were talking that's actually for jewelry is pretty good. That's huge. Unless unless one brochure is 3000, then maybe it's not so good, but it's still 3000 a month. It's pretty good. She writes. How can I, uh, what I can write in your own writing here? How can I, Oh, take the next steps, uh, to turn this into a full-time business, uh, myself. So what would you, what would be a few tips that you can give her with that limited amount? Yeah. So with like through the normal steps, I would, I would have someone go through and BYOB is first and foremost, get clarity on what that looks like to you. Um, so often people start a business without a clear idea of what the ideal life that they're hoping this business will support is, you know, so, so it's Jen. So Jen, my question back to you is, you know, what does full-time look to you look like to you? Is it 10,000 a month? Is it $20,000 a month? Um, also what. Life do you want to have around that? Do you want to work 80 hours a week? Do you want to work 20 hours a week? Does that mean that you have to hire other people? You know, do you have a family? Well, you need to hire a nanny who can take care of your kids, you know, and pick them up from school and give them an afternoon snack, you know, once we go back to the real world, um, so get super clear on all that stuff, because once you know that you can reverse engineer it, you know, if, if you need to make $10,000 a month, I don't know anything about the jewelry you sell, but just figure out how like that divided by how many. Things you have to sell. And what, what is the, um, the difference in the cost? Um, also, you know, normally people I'll start off with a really entry-level product or a really entry-level service. What is something that you can do to elevate that, you know, take it to the next level. Um, you know, maybe you're turning around and you're teaching other jewelry makers how to build a really solid $3,000 a month side business, which is not something to sneeze that that is. $3,000 a month extra could help a lot of people. Right. You know, and people will pay because imagine you sell 'em a training course, it's a thousand dollars and it teaches someone how to do that. I mean, that's an incredible return on investment for someone, right? And then you've made a thousand dollars. There are a lot of people making jewelry right now, or maybe you have, um, like really wearable stuff that people can wear to work and you know, their kids can mess with, and it, it won't break. Maybe you make something out of gold or something. If you're not doing that already and you up the price on it, and maybe you have some really signature pieces that you only make, say, I don't know. I don't know how, what your turnout is, but say usually make a thousand of one thing. Maybe you only make 50 and it's a limited edition. Right? And then maybe also you reach out to some local retailers and you offer them rights to sell your jewelry where no one else can sell it. You know? So you want to, you want to up the price, you want to build awareness. We want to get really clear on where you're going with this, you know, and you know, with the jewelry brand, I mean, you could enter high fashion. That is absolutely doable. Is that what you want? Do you want to move to New York? That would be so cool. Like not nothing gets Mississippi, but if you're making jewelry, Oh my gosh. Like you want to be in a jewelry Mecca. How cool would that be? To be a, one of the big players there, if that's what you want. No shame. If that's not what you want. Right. And, and I'm not believe me. I'm not a jewelry expert at all, but the jewelry that I've seen, especially the online stuff, all has a personal touch to it. And I think that's what attracts people to it. Like, you know, Jen, this is Jen's specific signature thing that she makes it has a certain look to it. And, um, like some of the, you know, what the client I'm dealing with now, she has a specific product. And we talked about, you know, you have some return customers, you have loyal customers, don't ignore them and you should actually. They should be in a special club, you know, you know, put them in the, the, and then you make a specific piece of jewelry just for them or a specific item just for them, because now they're going to really feel special and they're going to pay for that. That's something that they didn't like, Oh, I I'm the only one, like you said, limited edition, but if you're in a club and you're the only one that can actually buy it, you're not only going to be, feel special about the club, but then other people are gonna want to join the club to get that specific thing. So there's a lot of things here, Jen, and you can do. But Katie is so right. You really have to figure out where you want to be and how is it going to, what do you need to do to get there? Because when you reverse engineer some, let's say you take 10 pieces of jewelry and those 10 pieces of jewelry get you to 3000 a month. Can you actually produce 30 pieces of jewelry? Now you're at 9,000 a month. Can you do that? If that's feasible, then that absolutely should be your goal. And that's how, that's how you should set your sales. So, yeah. Yes and everything you just said. And I want to add that there should be some kind of tracking system for what people buy. You know, maybe there are blue earrings that someone buys and they didn't buy the necklace. Um, you can send them an email if you, if you systemize it, send them an email, showing them that the necklace that comes out will match their earrings. The bracelet that comes out that will match their earrings, the rings that will come out, that match that earring, you know, um, or, you know, if you want to mix it up here is the same area in different color. You can have different. Color earrings on there and just make, make a style out of it, 28:35 you know? But yeah, there's so much software now that'll do that for you. Like, even from an email standpoint, um, and a, and a point of sale standpoint, it doesn't sound like you have a store. It sounds like she's doing this online again. We don't have all the information, but let's say she has a Shopify store and she's using square. They're collecting the emails. Now you do an email campaign from there and there's your existing customers then, then you, then from there. You know, programs like MailChimp or constant contact, those things. They, they, they will split, especially the ones that can connect with spot shot at Shopify. Yeah. They'll let you know how many people started a shopping cart and then abandon it and you have a reach out for that and you have a place to say, okay, this customer bought once and they'd never bought again. That's going to be in an email list. Now you, now you cater an email list to those one-time buyer. So there's so much you can do Jen and I. A lot of luck because it sounds like you're on your way, especially if your base foundation is 3000 a month. I think, I think I'm going to predict that this time next year, Jen is going to be selling a hundred thousand dollars worth of jewelry. Yeah, I hope so too. I was like, she has a good head on her shoulders if she's, you know, built a jewelry making business up to 3000 a month. Yeah. So, and contact Katie for help to get you to that a hundred thousand a year. Cause she will definitely help you do that. So, well, the other thing I just want to. Um, underscore everything we've been talking about, you know, showing up, always works. So putting yourself out there, making awareness, you know, I've been seeing this beautiful videos on Tik, talk about people, making their jewelry in the process. You know, it's simple way to just show up in people's awareness so that they know that you make jewelry and here's the thing. And also, you know, for any industry, just show up, you know, make sure your friends, family, uh, former colleagues. It's former, uh, you know, classmates all know what you're up to and, and being on social media in that, in that respect, when you're, when you're selling something is critical. I even learned myself. I've, I've been on Tik TOK for six weeks now, and I've had a couple of viral videos and it's really freaking cool because, you know, I went from no followers to 4,500 in six weeks on tick-tock and that's not great, but for me, that's 4,500 more people that didn't know about me six weeks ago. Who knows what that's going to turn into, but if you do that on, on with, with jewelry and stuff, like you said, you're going to get a great following that you can build pretty quickly. And then you put your little business link in your, in your bio and you're off to the races. So, um, it's really, it's really the sky's the limit that's for sure. So cool. Well, Jen, I hope that was helpful. Yes, we, we, I, I, hopefully it was grease out again. Jen would love to hear from you on how you're doing. Please keep, keep us informed. So back to Katie. Katie, give us a, we're actually running out of time already. Believe it or not. Um, yeah, we're going fast. This usually happens with the two of us, but, so, so let's leave some people with, with, uh, with a Katie Acadia ism or something that you would tell people, um, first to the, to the, to the salespeople in the audience, give them, uh, a piece of advice and then to the business owner or the small business owner, what would you say before you? Yeah, I think to everyone just slow down, you know, we're moving. So fast right now, we're trying to make things happen. And what gets run over first is connection and relationship, you know, in, in the name of getting shit done, we jump over each other and that has never served a business, you know, for a business to jump over their customer or a partner or the people who work for them or work with them. Like not tending to that relationship is one of the most harmful things to your business. So slow down it's it's it seems counterintuitive because there's so much to do right now. And we're all at home. We're trying to make things work with kids at home and, and, you know, zoom back to back meetings, but just taking a moment and checking in with everyone and, and bringing the human element back, that that is never going out of style. And remember this, you know, I think it was my Angela said this, people will forget what you say, but they'll never forget. How you made them feel? She did say that one of my favorite quotes, but it's so true. If someone makes you feel seen and understood, even if they're not the right person to help you or to sell something to you, you're going to remember, that's a good person. I'm going to refer people to them. Absolutely. And it's all comes back. If you, if you always lead with a helping mindset. One of my other favorite quotes was by Brian. Tracy, who said, um, go, no, I'm sorry. Zig Ziglar said this. He said, yeah, If you want to get everything you want in life, help people get everything that they want in life. And, and that is so true. If you help the, again, the world is your oyster. They, they, it, it will just come back to a hundred fold. Um, and, and the other thing is I heard this, I had, I had Dr. Kelly Henry on my podcast many weeks ago. He said something to me about customers that always stuck with me. And I'll say this now to, to piggyback on what you said, Katie, uh, customers. Interaction with you should be the best part of their day. Yeah. Isn't that cool. I love that. I love that the customer's interaction with you should be the best part of their day. If it is, you'll be in good shape. Yeah. 34:14 All right. Any parting words on this awesome podcast that we just had? 34:19 You just said, 34:21 I mean, to party everyone take a nap. Everyone's everyone I've spoken to today has just been exhausted. Just go and lay down for 20 minutes. That's all I have to say. That's what I planned on doing before dinner. 34:35 That is so true. That is the revise that we've heard all day. At least I have. Anyway, Katie McManus. Thank you for joining me. This has been amazing. Um, and again, we could talk for hours and hopefully we will again, someday, but I want to thank you for being on the podcast. I want to thank everyone for joining me as well on marketing and sales over cocktails. Remember the podcast website is marketing and sales podcasts.com. Send me a question and you'll get an answer. So like you did tonight, uh, with Katie, we helped Jen over in Mississippi with her jewelry business. So hopefully we can help you as well. Thanks again, everyone, Katie. Thank you one more time and we will see everyone and again, next time 35:13 and we are out. We're done.